[lost99]

Originally Posted by vbkk

It's funny how u compare coyotes concept with the scams of Temples/Jewellery. Lol. U make it sound like those scams bars at patpong where u order a drink and then need to pay 3-10k baht to be able to leave.

Why is it funny? A scam is a scam is a scam correct? no matter how big or small or deceptive. Dishonesty is all the same in my book.

Originally Posted by vbkk

I have nothing against westerners but dun u think it's hard even to ask anyone in the bar if the girls are barfineable/ price of barfine/ lady drink price / is the girl available.

Would MOST really be that stupid to go into a bar and start randomly order many sets of ladydrinks for an hour and only to realise that all he could have done to save himself all that unnecessary if he could just asked?

If you read the above quotes, yes, many tourists have been scammed in Coyote bars, with 'bill padding' and thinking they can barfine the Coyote only to be dissapoint. If the bars care more about customer service, they should tell the customer this, but they don't. You blame the customer for not asking, but if you walk into a restaurant and order a coke and get charged $300 baht, is it your fault for not 'asking' the price of a Coke? There's a fine line between reasonable customer expectations and a scam, and for me Coyote bars cross that line.

Originally Posted by vbkk

It's a basic for anyone who is planning to go somewhere in a foreign country to do some ground check on the place they intend to go. Failing to plan is sure to fail. So u are saying it's the bar responsibility to put up a sign in different languages for those who came unprepared?

There is no obligation for bars to put up a sign explaining anything. In fact, it seems like you put the onus entirely on the customer to research everything and take full responsibility, while the bar takes no responsiblity. A restaurant does not need to put prices on their menu, its their choice to be honest and forthingcoming if they want. But ones that do not and proceed to overcharge customer is a deceptive practice. Do you blame the restaurant in this case, or the customer for not asking? Whatever your view, any restaurant that have this kind of additude and business practice is a scam in my books.

Originally Posted by vbkk

U said u expect every girl is available for sex. Even in a agogo bar, a girl have the right to refuse to go with a particular customer if she is not comfortable to go with him.

There is a difference between 'available' and 'forced'. Coyote girls are typically not available, but are marketed in a way to appear that they are. None of your arugments address this core deceptive issue. You keep arguing peripheral points which don't address the core deceptive practice of Coyote bars. This has nothing to do with China KTV, money or spending.

Originally Posted by vbkk

Financially motivated? Even if the coyote bars have not a single customer, Nor the girls can't make a single LD or barfine, I still get 100% Not more Not less Comm for each girl I supplied. Lol. There's no difference for me 365 days even there's only just 1 pathetic customer sitting there sipping a drink for hours for the whole night.

You get 100% in the short term, but in the Long-term, if no customers in Coyote bars, surely your business will be affected and you will lose profits from bars booking your ladies. How can you even argue you aren't financially motivated to support Coyote Bars? I'm sorry this is the worst argument you have made.

Originally Posted by vbkk

Why would we need any respected brother here for any case, to come forward to attest his like for that? Do u need a voting system for it as well? As much as u might detest the coyote concept, there are plenty of Japan/farang as well as Singaporeans patronising nana/cowboy every night.

Because this is not SG where only the PAP can produce their propaganda and silence and drown the general public with their narrow views, and tell the people how they should think. So far only you seem to praise Coyote Bars, but you are obviously biased to do so. Those Farangs/Japs that visit SC/NP, do they go there looking for Coyotes or Gogo dancers? do they visit the Coyote bars by mistake thinking they are gogo bars where you can barfine? Obviously they visit famous places like Baccarra but this is a Gogo Bar not Coyote. This is why i am interested in hearing other opinions that are not biased. You seem to confuse the popularity of Gogo places like Baccarra with pure Coyote Bars... which i don't hear similar praise and popularity.

Originally Posted by vbkk

Does baccara put up a SIGN that says " most of my agogo employees only prefer to go ST instead of LT. Preferably Japan customers. standard barfine - 600A+2LDS. LT - 4 hours." As myself, I did not see that. But despite many disapprove of how expensive and ridiculous it may seem at baccara, it's still attracts lots of customers.

Why do you keep confusing Bacarra and Coyote Bar? Bacarra is clearly a Gogo bar where you can barfine any girl there. The issue is not how popular/expensive Baccara is. The issue I have is the depceptive practice of Coyote's and Coyote Bars like the Arab bars. All your response have failed to address this clearly.

Originally Posted by vbkk

Last but not least, if u have the mindset that the girls u see must be available for anyone for sex , there's only one place. Massage parlours. Agogo bars girls also have the right to refuse to go with u but the next moment go off with a Japan customer. M I right to say that agogo bars also deceive customers to believe that all their girls have to go ST/LT as per requested by any customer without the right to refuse? They should also put signs in all different languages particular in Chinese. As I have seen many girls rejecting going with China tourists. Please let me know your views on the agogo bars.

Again, the issue is not Agogo bars, and you seem to confuse their business practices and that of Coyote Bars such as Arab bars. My complaint is the Coyote bars deceptively 'blur' the options of different girls, and deliberately do a bad job of advising the customer to make more profits. Your arugments seem to blame the customer for not clearly 'asking'. If this is your business model i feel bad for you, in my business i clearly tell my customer all my charges and fees so they are not upset or disappointed and they come back as repeat customer. Maybe this is the reason local Thais are not allowed in Coyote bars because they would be upset with this dishonestly and cause a scene in the bar - I can't think of any other industry that would discriminate against their own people in their own country! Personally, I never blame my customers in my business for not asking things, i consider it my job to be honest and put their satisfaction first.

VBKK, there is no point continuing this argument with you, and i will stop now because you feel strong and stubborn on this issue, and confuse the argument with other issues that don't address the core issue i have described. This is why i wish to hear the views of others to see what they think, but you don't t that is necessary. Again, i think it is very revealing that not a single other person here say they like the infestation of Coyotes, while many other bros clearly dislike it. Just because SC has evolved to this style does not mean that its what the people like/want.