Budget Hotel Raided on 3rd April

[me05]

last week i still go there.

seow liao. lucky din get caught.

[peanut123]

OK, here are some articles that will answer your questions.

This is a speech by Assoc Prof Ho Peng Kee, on 15 Sept 2008 in Parliament.

The url is Ministry of Home Affairs - Oral Answer to Parliamentary Question on Vice and Human Trafficking, 15 September 2008.

In his speech, Assoc Prof Ho Peng Kee clearly and unambiguously explains the policies in place to prevent sex workers from coming here under social visit passes, and that the police conducts raids to catch them, deport them and blacklist them. As I mentioned in my previous post, Sg does not jail them. We merely kick them out of the country and prevent them from ever returning. If they were free to ply their trade legally, there would be no need to arrest them for vice activities. Note the emphasis on licensing checks, and arrests/deportation of the women who engage in vice.

For brevity, I quote the relevant text below. You can read the full article in the URL above. The emphasis are mine.

---start----

Last year, Police arrested 5,400 female foreigners for vice-related activities.

As I said in this House earlier this year, there will always be a very small number among those who come to Singapore who enter under the pretext of social visits but engage in vice activities.


2. Nevertheless, MHA has in place a number of measures to detect and prevent sex workers from entering Singapore as far as possible under the guise of social visitors.


4. Next, when a foreigner arrives in Singapore, she is subjected to face-to-face immigration clearance by ICA officers and screened against the various border control systems. Apart from scrutinizing travel documents, ICA officers also assess the entry eligibility of each visitor. If the officer suspects that the visitor’s intention of entering Singapore is dubious or non-genuine, the visitor will be referred to the Duty Officer for secondary examination. This includes screening the person’s fingerprints against a database of immigration offenders. If it is established that the visitor has previous adverse records or is entering Singapore for dubious purposes, he or she will be denied entry.


5. Nevertheless, some sex workers will still slip through the system. Such cases are dealt with through police enforcement. Last year, Police conducted more than 900 vice-related raids. These include major anti-vice operations as well as licensing checks on entertainment outlets and massage establishments. As a result, some 5400 foreign sex workers were arrested. We take their biometric data, send them back home and blacklist them from entering Singapore.

---end of speech---

In another speech, Prof Ho further states :

".... In Singapore, we take a pragmatic approach to tackling vice by confining prostitution to traditional red light areas. Through sustained enforcement efforts by Police, the vice situation in Singapore is under control...."

Note that prostitution is to be confined to red light areas (ie, Geylang, Petain, Desker, etc ). Kovan, Lavender etc do not fall into these areas.



And One more response (written this time) by the Minister of Home Affairs in 2004 (Wong Kan Seng, at Ministry of Home Affairs - Written Reply to Parliamentary Question for MHA during Parliament Sitting on 20 July 04). I have only copied and pasted the relevant parts, you may read the entire response at the URL above :

Police will, in particular, take enforcement actions to clean up vice activities taking place outside the traditional red-light areas so as to contain such activities within these areas. Any foreigner found to be involved in vice activities while in Singapore will be repatriated and banned from re-entering Singapore.

...Visitors may be subject to further checks and interviews if they are suspected to be coming to Singapore for vice or other nefarious reasons. In such instances, ICA will not allow them entry.

------end----

Here's part of MHA's response to vice in Orchard Towers :

2. So far this year, Police has carried out 104 checks at Orchard Towers and Orchard Plaza. As a result, 206 sex workers were arrested at Orchard Towers. 4 masseuses involved in vice activities have also been arrested during checks at Orchard Plaza this year. The most recent enforcement operation at Orchard Towers was conducted on 30 October 2004 where 120 women were arrested on suspicion of involvement in vice activities. Following these enforcement actions, the vice activities at Orchard Towers and Orchard Plaza have been largely kept in check.

---end---

Finally, one more snippet :

15. We take a pragmatic approach where we confine prostitution to traditional red light areas, take enforcement actions against prostitutes who solicit in public and against pimps who force women into prostitution or live off their earnings, and keep syndicates out. That is why we tackle vice activities carried out illicitly in places such as massage parlours vigorously, which is now under control, through licensing requirements and regular checks.

--end--

Its clear to me that prostitutes are to be licensed and can only operate in the red light districts. They are not allowed to operate freely as you have assumed.

Originally Posted by Sperm Man

Prostitution is a legal profession in singapore with or without an licence. Prostitutes, local or foreign, are free to ply the trade here. Local/foreign FLs can never be prosecuted cos there are no provisions in the penal code or women's charter. Most foreign FLs are arrested for immigration-related offences whom are usually released with written warning or are deported. However, overstayers will be fined or jailed.

As much as I am utterly curious about your source of information, which I dutifully clarify the facts so that other bros here are adequately equipped to make informed decisions.

[peanut123]

Wah... Your post got secret message one.

Originally Posted by Xgenre

The aunties of Keong Siak will like me to remind you that you are always in their hearts. Although what they earn per session is peanut, every peanut (be it 1 peanut, 2 peanuts or 3 peanuts) counts.

[osborne123]

Well brothers,

If want to play,play safe, including safe sex... If really kena caught... really sway as well...

Want to play, take the risks but be alert...if not dun play at all lor...

Haiz... time to retire liao lar.

[jitlong69]

Am I right to say AV will only check on transit rooms? leaving and not disturb those rooms that are booked for the whole day.
I thought they will knock on every door regardless the status of the bookings (rooms)
After reading all, I think our local FL bussiness will grow.

[goodpartner]

Originally Posted by Sperm Man

Prostitution is a legal profession in singapore with or without an licence.

Originally Posted by peanut123

Its clear to me that prostitutes are to be licensed and can only operate in the red light districts. They are not allowed to operate freely as you have assumed.

My kpo unsubstantiated reasoning will be that in summary, Sperm Man is correct with the above quote, and he rightly qualify further by saying that to "work" in Sg on a social visit pass is illegal - just like students are not allowed to work on a student pass.

Therefore these FL got caught and deported is for the breach of ICA rules ("working" on a social pass) and not about prostitution.

If my reasoning is right, it means that a PR/Citizen is free to work as a prostitute in Singapore WITHOUT the need for license. As PR/Citizen inherit the privilege to "work" in Singapore (unlike a social visit pass). And this is supported by the fact that nobody was ever prosecuted for prostitution before

So can I say this? All ye PR and Citizen out there reading this; Just as long as you do not solicit for business in the public, etc... you are free to work as a prostitute!

[Big Sexy]

some of you people here should really read the stickies..

http://sbfjust.rocks/welcome...er-sg-law.html

[jacky43]

Originally Posted by steedy

I went to Kovan 81 last nite with my FB, the staffs now checking ID on my FB. Only local and PR is allow. Quene infront of me got one uncle with a PRC, the PRC took out her green card, the staff dun allow him to book the room.

Come to think about it, budget hotels policy checkin with ICs. 2yrs ago, never visit GL longtime allready, notices guys w/o ICs. The counter ask names, i think wrote it down and ok! Wrong move for this men, include S permit passess or PR too.

I imagine if i authority on mission, i request counter checkin books. Then the rooms issued, not difficult to match missing keys with names on book. Rooms w/o registered names, knock doors come come. Ah! never carry ICs 1record statements. FLs i afraid checkmate, guys pray police will not bringup matters to court. Sure got something.

Additional, 1st fl i think is given to short time usage. Upper floors so far never being there, could b is for full booking?

I urged all guys to exercise cautious, really 1 pls go thru proper policies liked, register names.

[Frankiestine]

Wah like one bro say, we cheong to release stress...but now seems like we go cheong even more stress...scare sekali the knock on the door...can imagine if this happens to me...my didi immediately "kiew ki lai"..

[peanut123]

Your reasoning is wrong. The Minister of Home Affair's responses deals with VICE ACTIVITIES, not IMMIGRATION VIOLATIONS. Go and read this speeches again. He mentions tackling vice many times in his many speeches.

For example, he said "120 women were arrested on suspicion of involvement in vice activities", and "we tackle vice activities carried out illicitly in places such as massage parlours".

Secondly, Singapore issues permits to those who want to be hookers. This is so that they can regulate the hookers and ensure they go for health checks, that they are here willingly (not tricked or conned into working as sex workers), and they do not operate outside designated red light areas.

Singapore is a control freak country, and it definitely wants to regulate such a dubious and potentially hazardous profession. Allowing anyone to be a hooker will mean it is impossible to regulate the profession. Any Singaporean will know that once the government starts issuing permits for a profession, anyone WITHOUT those permits are not allowed to work in those professions.

Why is that so hard to understand ?

Originally Posted by goodpartner

My kpo unsubstantiated reasoning will be that in summary, Sperm Man is correct with the above quote, and he rightly qualify further by saying that to "work" in Sg on a social visit pass is illegal - just like students are not allowed to work on a student pass.

Therefore these FL got caught and deported is for the breach of ICA rules ("working" on a social pass) and not about prostitution.

If my reasoning is right, it means that a PR/Citizen is free to work as a prostitute in Singapore WITHOUT the need for license. As PR/Citizen inherit the privilege to "work" in Singapore (unlike a social visit pass). And this is supported by the fact that nobody was ever prosecuted for prostitution before

So can I say this? All ye PR and Citizen out there reading this; Just as long as you do not solicit for business in the public, etc... you are free to work as a prostitute!

[jesgirl]

The raid is for vice activities definately, the authority can bring anyone back for investigation but that doesnt mean these people are offenders:

These women are not offenders, but if they solicit for sex in public, they will be prosecuted, says Ho Peng Kee

***(Well, for example before the kovan raid newspaper reported these WLs harrassing ppl outside H81 how not to raid? no face leh)

Women brought here and forced to be prostitutes will not be prosecuted. Neither will foreign women who come here to earn money as prostitutes.

The reason they are not treated as offenders is that prostitution is not an offence here. However, if they solicit for sex in public, they will be prosecuted.

*** (They can't simply set up tables and chairs outside kovan to do interview on these WLs isn't it), if you are license WLs in GL try solicit for sex in public (even outside your brothel) and you will be an offender. Singapore law for prostitution is best I have to said, as long as you don't harass the public it's not an offend.

[peanut123]

I do not agree.

Firstly, the quote you gave ("These women are not offenders, but if they solicit for sex in public, they will be prosecuted") is from an article regarding FORCED PROSTITUTION (The title of the article is "Cases of forced prostitution are 'very rare'", Straits Times, Sept 3 2004). Obviously, in that context of forced prostitution, these women are victims rather than offenders. However, even as victims they are not allowed to solicit publicly. Hence, the quote from Prof Ho. But that does not mean FLs are allowed. Those caught will simply be deported.

Secondly, if prostitution is allowed even without permits, why even issue permits ? When the gov issues permits, everyone who engages in that profession must get a permit. Every Singaporean is familiar with this concept. This is true for any profession in Singapore where licensing is required. This is for regulatory purposes, so that the gov can keep an eye on the girls. Allowing anyone to do FL without licenses would defeat this regulatory purpose.

Thirdly, why do they then raid massage parlors and spas, and regularly deport those masseuses ? There is no public solicitation in these cases. If you follow the Massage Palor forum ( in fact, I started in SBF in that forum ), you'll see that many spas are regularly raided and the girls deported. A few months ago, the same thing happened to one of the spas I visited, which subsequently shut down. Many a bros have lamented the loss of their favorite masseuse. The reason for these raids are that the masseuses are NOT SUPPOSED to be providing sexual services. Surely these raids are not needed if unlicensed prostitution is allowed. The best info comes from the masseuse themselves. They are not afraid of being caught doing massages ( which they are certified to do ), but are afraid of being caught providing specials.

Forthly, I go to H81 (including Kovan and other hot spots) too, and there are very little, if any at all, soliciting outside these hotels. I have also waited outside these hotels before and not once has any FL approached me. Most people seem abit paiseh to be there, and just walk right in, ask for a transit room, and quickly disppear into the rooms. To say that WLs are harassing men outside the hotel is abit of an exaggeration. If the police want to stop them, they just need to arrest these 1 or 2 ladies instead of raiding the hotel.

As for your observation about licensed girls not allowed to ply their trade outside, this is obvious since they are licensed to work inside the legal brothels only.

You can keep having this delusion that unlicensed prostitution is allowed if that makes you feel better, but its a fact that the AV regularly arrests women for VICE activities, and the responses from MHA and Prof Ho have stressed anti-vice measures many, many times. If you like this false sense security, it's your own problem, but I think bros should be wiser than that. Or they could end up in a police station, feeling very stupid and malu.

Originally Posted by jesgirl

The raid is for vice activities definately, the authority can bring anyone back for investigation but that doesnt mean these people are offenders:

These women are not offenders, but if they solicit for sex in public, they will be prosecuted, says Ho Peng Kee

***(Well, for example before the kovan raid newspaper reported these WLs harrassing ppl outside H81 how not to raid? no face leh)

Women brought here and forced to be prostitutes will not be prosecuted. Neither will foreign women who come here to earn money as prostitutes.

The reason they are not treated as offenders is that prostitution is not an offence here. However, if they solicit for sex in public, they will be prosecuted.

*** (They can't simply set up tables and chairs outside kovan to do interview on these WLs isn't it), if you are license WLs in GL try solicit for sex in public (even outside your brothel) and you will be an offender. Singapore law for prostitution is best I have to said, as long as you don't harass the public it's not an offend.

[peanut123]

BTW, another raid was carried out for antivice. These include drugs, gambling, and prostitution, including the forested areas in Woodlands, which is infamous for having those prostitutes operating out of tents.

TODAYonline | Singapore | 108 nabbed in anti-vice raid

Check out the photo of the girls covering their faces in what looks like a KTV or club. Food for thought. Still think unlicensed prostitution is allowed ?

[jesgirl]

Still think unlicensed prostitution is allowed -> Yes

[AustinPowers]

I agree with you.

Prostitution is not legal, strictly speaking -- unless it is in licensed zones (Geylang, Johore St, etc.). Sometimes, the gov closes one eye and allows vice activities to go on. But they can stop it anytime they like - even in health centres, KTVs, etc.

One reason why Macau casinos are so successful is because Macau is teeming with working ladies everywhere and drugs are easily available - and the Macau authorities don't give a damn about it. Interesting to see how Marina and Sentosa IRs compete with the casinos of Macau.